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Yes they would count as meditation knowledges.Illuvia wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:51 am I don't really know how to phrase my question... but do the knowledges count for the skill?
For instance, if I were learning thru meditation I'm going to end up with a bunch of knowledge like:
Contemplation: <name of magic>
Arcane Saturation: <name of magic>
Would these count as "Meditation" knowledges for the sake of progressing the Meditation skill?
From The Non-Spark Magic write-up, under Skills:
To be honest, the whole spark-to non-spark is still being discussed, mostly with regards to the eviction of a spark from one's soul and how/when that is accomplished in relation to non-spark magic learning. But in any case, however a spark is ejected, one must then learn through the methods provided to Research'Meditation/Ensorcelling skills in order to regain the magic through that method.
I'm glad you're enthused about the new thing!Okay this is actually very cool, and I have a ton of questions.
1) How would this play out lore wise? Would the players each individually figure out on their own that non-spark magic is possible and then try out the theory? Or is there going to be a site-wide plot about the first non-spark mages rising up. Non-spark magic would definitely shift the balance of power accross Idalos and I am excited to see what happens regardless.
2. I think due to the requirements of the magics, it would still be rare outside of pcs. Meditation mages need to travel near to fractures, a dangerous activity. researchers delve into forbidden knowledge and may risk going mad as they uncover secrets the mortal mind was not meant to grasp. Ensorcellers deal with wells, which are inherently explosive and dangerous in their own right. So I think on balance it won't impact how many become mages too much.
2) Thematically how would it preserve the balance of magic? Currently Magic stands in a unique position as it grants great personal power at the expense of great personal risk. From my reading of the write up, it feels as if Non-spark magic is more or less the same, but without all the risks and hazards associated with Spark magic. The major downside I suppose, is that they cannot overstep and force themselves to cast a spell when they are in a pinch, but this feels outweighed by no mutations, the ability to reveal and never overstep.
2b) My first reaction to seeing the upsides and downsides of non-spark magic is the actual cost of getting there, the IC plot threads and personal risks that would be associated in trying to obtain sparkless magic. I assume that the questing for non-spark magic will be just as risky as Spark Initiation? Additionally, what would the PSF involvement look like? Would these threads be solo or with Storyteller involvement.
I'm having a little trouble wrapping my mind around this question? Meditation at expert is meditation at expert. You start from novice as a new mage. Knowledge of that magic must be earned AS a mage. The knowledge gained as a meditator (for your example) would contribute only toward meditation knowledge and skill. Think of learning the new magic as any other skill, you'd learn from the start. Unless you were previously a sparked mage with existing knowledge, then that knowledge transfers, xp must still be spent to increase skill3) Finally what would the skill to magic skill transfer look like? Would a Meditative Mind-Mage (accidental alliteration) who gains their magic at expert, be expert level in their chosen Domain? Since certain utilization of the magics requires knowledge, would they essentially be an expert level mage in the basic powers but novice level in terms of what they can actually do, the utlization.
This is pretty exciting and I can't wait to see what the players and staff will do with this come February.
My immediate thoughts are spark-sparkless mage rivalry, at least amongst the more snarky or arrogant mages.
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Good question. I believe overstepping is still a thing, just that it manifests in a way that the non-spark mage hits a brick wall with varying degrees of force. They either end up with a splitting headache, lose the ability to cast for a while, etc. From this section of the Non-Spark magic guide:Illuvia wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2024 2:00 pm Since non-spark mages cannot overstep, does this mean they simply cannot use abilities that force mages to overstep? I believe some of the higher end abilities say that it's likely that overstepping will occur, and some like transmutation's well crafting say overstepping is inevitable (for higher class wells). I had an inkling that being able to take advantage of these abilities without worrying about failing is the main benefit to being a spark-mage. I'd probably be too scared to use them as a non-spark mage.
The Learning Domain Magic section of Ensorcelling covers this issue:
This might be a dumb question, but can any Well of the appropriate tier be used to gain magic? Or does it have to be a specific Well? Also, is the Well destroyed in the process or do you still have it afterwards?
I believe Flaying is solely an ability imparted by the Spark, and thus not available to non-spark mages.Is flaying still a thing? I had a vague memory of mages being able to suck out people's souls and had to search the wiki to find info on it. And that page doesn't appear to be linked to anywhere else. If it is still a thing, can non-spark mages do it?
Oh I think I missed the point of this question. No you don't need a specific type of well, so long as it's the appropriate class/level for learning a magic. Thanks for the question, it is not a dumb one._______________________
This might be a dumb question, but can any Well of the appropriate tier be used to gain magic? Or does it have to be a specific Well? Also, is the Well destroyed in the process or do you still have it afterwards?
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Yes, you still need to be a credible age in order to learn magic. If you read the research method, it's quite strenuous. Maybe a prodigy at age 14 might manage it, but that's stretching it even then. These methods still come with their share of danger, although they're arguably less dangerous than spark initiation, the fact remains that a very young, small child learning magic through these methods will be almost unheard of.
I would refer you to this part of the rule on non-domain non-spark magic: here