Business Setup Test Thread.

[Pegasus]

Ok, so:

relevant post in Feedback Thread


Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 1 customers.
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 4 customers.
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 6 customers.
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 9 customers.

Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 2 customers.
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 3 customers.
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 5 customers.
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 8 customers.

Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 2 customers.
Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 5 customers.
Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 7 customers.
Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 10 customers.

Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 1 customers.
Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 4 customers.
Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 6 customers.
Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 10 customers.

Lets try those and see how we go. I'll have a bash at it asap.

[Pegasus]

Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 1 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 2 wp new total 2wp remains in tier
~~~~~ Example B: 1 wp new total 3wp remains in tier
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 4 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 11 wp new total below zero must get a loan
~~~~~ Example B: 7 wp new total below zero must get a loan
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 6 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 17 wp new total below zero must get a loan
~~~~~ Example B: 11 wp new total below zero must get a loan
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 9 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 26 wp new total below zero must get a loan
~~~~~ Example B: 17 wp new total below zero must get a loan

Ok. Personally, I'm liking Example A for this.

Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 2 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 4 wp new total 10wp remains in tier
~~~~~ Example B: 2 wp new total 12wp remains in tier
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 3 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 7 wp new total 7wp remains in tier
~~~~~ Example B: 4 wp new total 10wp remains in tier
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 5 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 13 wp new total 1wp drops to Tier 1
~~~~~ Example B: 8 wp new total 6wp remains in tier
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 8 customers.
~~~~~ Example A: 22 wp new total below zero must get a loan
~~~~~ Example B: 14 wp new total zero drops to Tier 1

Again - I'm preferring Example A here.

Thoughts?

[Quio]

So really all we need to calculate each business' startup cost is the base cost of their target tier and their differential.

Once we figure out what we want the base cost to be for each target tier, I can start figuring out how long it would take a PC to basically pay off their starting business costs. And then we can adjust as needed-- or we can base how much money they make per customer off that.

For what it's worth I prefer Example A, though I think it needs tweaking.

Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 1 customers.
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 4 customers.
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 6 customers.
Tier 1 pc with 4 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 9 customers.

Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 2 customers.
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 3 customers.
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 5 customers.
Tier 2 pc with 14 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 8 customers.

Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 2 customers.
Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 5 customers.
Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 7 customers.
Tier 3 pc with 34 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 10 customers.

Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 1 customers.
Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 4 customers.
Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 6 customers.
Tier 4 pc with 55 wealth points is setting up a business aimed at Tier 10 customers.

Just for another (more expensive) option--

Example C
base costs of target tiers (where the target tier is the tier a PC is aiming to sell to)
tier 10 = 55wp
tier 9 = 50 wp
tier 8 = 45wp
tier 7 = 40wp
tier 6 = 35wp
tier 5 = 30wp
tier 4 = 25wp
tier 3 = 20wp
tier 2 = 15wp
tier 1 = 10wp

startup cost = base cost of target tier - startup wealth differential

tier 1 to tier 1 = 0 swd (startup wealth differential)
sc (santa claus startup cost) = 10 - 0 = 10wp
must get a loan

tier 1 to tier 4 = -3 swd
sc = 25wp - (-3) = 28wp
must get a loan

tier 1 to tier 6 = -5 swd
sc = 35wp - (-5) = 40wp
must get a loan

tier 1 to tier 9 = -8 swd
sc = 50wp - (-8) = 58wp
must get a loan
extra line here

tier 2 to tier 2 = 0 swd
sc = 15wp - 0 = 15wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp

tier 2 to tier 3 = -1 swd
sc = 20wp - (-1) = 21wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp

tier 2 to tier 5 = -3 swd
sc = 30wp - (-3) = 33wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp

tier 2 to tier 8 = -6 swd
sc = 45wp - (-6) = 51wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp
extra line here

tier 3 to tier 2 = +1 swd
sc = 15wp - 1 = 14wp
20wp left of 34wp

tier 3 to tier 5 = -2 swd
sc = 30wp - (-2) = 32wp
2wp left of 34wp

tier 3 to tier 7 = -4 swd
sc = 40wp - (-4) = 44wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp

tier 3 to tier 10 = -7 swd
sc = 55wp - (-7) = 62wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp
extra line here

tier 4 to tier 1 = +3 swd
sc = 10 - 3 = 7wp
48wp left of 55wp

tier 4 to tier 4 = 0 swd
sc = 25wp - 0 = 25wp
30wp left of 55wp

tier 4 to tier 6 = -2 swd
sc = 35wp - (-2) = 37wp
18wp left of 55wp

tier 4 to tier 10 = -6 swd
sc = 55wp - (-6) = 61wp
must get a loan or drop tier(s) and owe wp

Using this setup (and assuming that each target tier increases in base value from tier 1 at least expensive to tier 10 at most), the business that will always cost the most to start is tier 1 targeting tier 10. That cost will always be 9 + (the base cost of tier 10). So we can determine what we want to be the most expensive business by simply setting a base cost for tier 10. So, for example C, the most expensive business will cost 64gn. The least expensive business to start will always be tier 10 targeting tier 1. For example C, the least expensive business will cost 1gn.

Question-- How much of a difference do we want between the most expensive base cost (at target tier 10) and the least expensive (at target tier 1)?

EDIT: How long it takes to pay off their loans depends on how much they're making for each purchase thread, how many PC customers they have, and their general wage per season. I'll add an estimate for that in another post for example C instead of continuing to edit this one.

[Pegasus]

So really all we need to calculate each business' startup cost is the base cost of their target tier and their differential.

I... think so? Yes. I think so.

Once we figure out what we want the base cost to be for each target tier, I can start figuring out how long it would take a PC to basically pay off their starting business costs. And then we can adjust as needed-- or we can base how much money they make per customer off that.

Excellent. Ok - so we'll put a pin in that right now.

For what it's worth I prefer Example A, though I think it needs tweaking.

Agreed. Thank you. Have I said thank you to you a million times yet?

Just for another (more expensive) option--

Example C
base costs of target tiers (where the target tier is the tier a PC is aiming to sell to)
tier 10 = 55wp
tier 9 = 50 wp
tier 8 = 45wp
tier 7 = 40wp
tier 6 = 35wp
tier 5 = 30wp
tier 4 = 25wp
tier 3 = 20wp
tier 2 = 15wp
tier 1 = 10wp

startup cost = base cost of target tier - startup wealth differential

ok. I like this - but... what I don't like is the amounts. And let me tell you for-why. 10wp (the cost for a Tier 1 target tier) costs 10. Which is more than a Tier 1 pc could afford. Which, considering that they might have been... I think it's too high. Maybe start at 5? Or 2.. or.. I don't know. Arg! I mean. I suppose I'm just looking at it from the point of view of someone starting a business at their own wealth tier. For a Tier 1 pc, even at the top of the Tier, its nearly double their WP. For a Tier 10, it's 1/5. Now, it's right that there's a difference, but .. yeah, I don't know.

Maybe something like:
tier 10 = 40 wp (35?)
tier 9 = 30 wp
tier 8 = 25wp
tier 7 = 20wp
tier 6 = 15wp
tier 5 = 10wp
tier 4 = 8wp
tier 3 = 6wp
tier 2 = 4wp
tier 1 = 2wp

Whatcha think?

Using this setup (and assuming that each target tier increases in base value from tier 1 at least expensive to tier 10 at most), the business that will always cost the most to start is tier 1 targeting tier 10. That cost will always be 9 + (the base cost of tier 10). So we can determine what we want to be the most expensive business by simply setting a base cost for tier 10. So, for example C, the most expensive business will cost 64gn. The least expensive business to start will always be tier 10 targeting tier 1. For example C, the least expensive business will cost 1gn.

I think that will still be true in my example?

Question-- How much of a difference do we want between the most expensive base cost (at target tier 10) and the least expensive (at target tier 1)?

I'm really not sure. I think I like the differential there a bit better? What are your thoughts?

[Quio]

Excellent. Ok - so we'll put a pin in that right now.

Lol whoops. Already did it. Anyway here are the numbers--

For example C

Assuming each PC is starting with a +1 seasonal wage and making 1 PC purchase per season, and that their PC purchase earns them +2wp...
And assuming no interest bc I'm lazy... I'm going to calculate the longest it would take a starting PC to pay off the most expensive business they could have based on each tier.

tier 10 = 55wp
since a PC starting at tier 10 would have 251+wp
NO LOAN NEEDED with 196wp left over. If they paid out of pocket, they would drop to tier 9 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to get back to tier 10.
196 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 259wp

Or they could take out a loan for 55wp and remain at tier 10 while they pay it off.

tier 9 = 55wp - (-1) = 56wp
since a PC starting at tier 9 would have 196wp
NO LOAN NEEDED with 140wp left over. If they paid out of pocket, they would drop to tier 8 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to get back to tier 9.
140 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 203wp

Or they could take out a loan for 56wp and remain at tier 9 while they pay it off.

tier 8 = 55wp - (-2) = 57wp
since a PC starting at tier 8 would have 141wp
NO LOAN NEEDED with 84wp left over. If they paid out of pocket, they would drop to tier 5 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to get back to tier 8.
84 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 147wp

Or they could take out a loan for 57wp and remain at tier 8 while they pay it off.

tier 7 = 55wp - (-3) = 58wp
since a PC starting at tier 7 would have 116wp
NO LOAN NEEDED with 58wp left over. If they paid out of pocket, they would drop to tier 4 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to get back to tier 7.
58 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 121wp

Or they could take out a loan for 58wp and remain at tier 7 while they pay it off.

tier 6 = 55 - (-4) = 59wp
since a PC starting at tier 6 would have 91wp
NO LOAN NEEDED with 32wp left over. If they paid out of pocket, they would drop to tier 3 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to get back to tier 6.
32 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 95wp

Or they could take out a loan for 59wp and remain at tier 6 while they pay it off.

tier 5 = 55 - (-5) = 60wp
since a PC starting at tier 5 would have 66wp
NO LOAN NEEDED with 6wp left over. If they paid out of pocket, they would drop to tier 2 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to get back to tier 5.
6 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 69wp

Or they could take out a loan for 60wp and remain at tier 5 while they pay it off.

tier 4 = 55 - (-6) = 61wp
since a PC starting at tier 4 would have 46wp
MUST GET A LOAN. If they paid what they could out of pocket, they would drop to tier 1 and it would take a max of 4 seasons to pay off the loan.
61 - 46wp = 15wp
0 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + (4 + 2) = 18wp - 15 = 3wp
It would take an additional 5 seasons to get back to tier 4.
3 + (5 +2) + (6 + 2) + (7 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 48wp

Or they could take out a loan for 61wp and remain at tier 4 while they pay it off.

tier 3 = 55 - (-7) = 62wp
since a PC starting at tier 3 would have 26wp
MUST GET A LOAN. If they paid what they could out of pocket, they would drop to tier 1 and it would take a max of 7 seasons to pay off the loan.
62 - 26wp = 36wp
0 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (7 + 2) = 42wp - 36 = 6wp
It would take an additional 2 seasons to get back to tier 3.
6 + (8 + 2) + (9 + 2) = 27wp

Or they could take out a loan for 62wp and remain at tier 3 while they pay it off.

tier 2 = 55 - (-8) = 63wp
since a PC starting at tier 2 would have 6wp
MUST GET A LOAN. If they paid what they could out of pocket, they would drop to tier 1 and it would take a max of 9 seasons to pay off the loan.
63 - 6wp = 57wp
0 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 + 2) + ... + (9 + 2) = 63wp - 63 = 0wp
It would take an additional 1 season to get back to tier 2.
0 + (10 + 2) = 12wp

Or they could take out a loan for 63wp and remain at tier 2 while they pay it off.

tier 1 = 55 - (-9) = 64wp
since a PC starting at tier 1 would have 0wp
MUST GET A LOAN. Because they are already at tier 1 they cannot drop a tier. It would take a max of 10 seasons to pay off the loan. However, by the time they paid off the loan they would have enough left over wp to go up a tier to tier 2.
0 + (1 + 2) + (2 + 2) + (3 +2) + ... + (10 + 2) = 75wp - 64 = 11wp

[Quio]

ok. I like this - but... what I don't like is the amounts. And let me tell you for-why. 10wp (the cost for a Tier 1 target tier) costs 10. Which is more than a Tier 1 pc could afford. Which, considering that they might have been... I think it's too high. Maybe start at 5? Or 2.. or.. I don't know. Arg! I mean. I suppose I'm just looking at it from the point of view of someone starting a business at their own wealth tier. For a Tier 1 pc, even at the top of the Tier, its nearly double their WP. For a Tier 10, it's 1/5. Now, it's right that there's a difference, but .. yeah, I don't know.

Maybe something like:
tier 10 = 40 wp (35?)
tier 9 = 30 wp
tier 8 = 25wp
tier 7 = 20wp
tier 6 = 15wp
tier 5 = 10wp
tier 4 = 8wp
tier 3 = 6wp
tier 2 = 4wp
tier 1 = 2wp

Whatcha think?

The problem with tier 1 costing anything less than 10 is that at some point one or more of the business options will cost 0 or less than 0 to start. This is because the differentials range from -9 to +9.

So, if tier 1 costed 9wp
A tier 10 PC targeting tier 1 would cost 9 - 9 = 0.

If tier 1 costed 8wp
A tier 10 PC targeting tier 1 would cost 8 - 9 = -1.

If tier 1 costed 7wp
A tier 10 PC targeting tier 1 would cost 7 - 9 = -2.

And on and on until you get to
If tier 1 costed 2wp
A tier 10 PC targeting tier 1 would cost 2 - 9 = -7.

And finally
If tier 1 costed 1wp
A tier 10 PC targeting tier 1 would cost 1 - 9 = -8.

So anything below tier 1 costing 10wp means we'll have to either accept that some businesses won't cost anything, or we'll have to set up special stipulations in the case of a business costing nothing or less than nothing.

I'm fine with however we want to do it, but that was my reasoning for putting tier 1 at base 10wp.

[Quio]

Also I was just thinking-- I think we should set PC business prices at less than price list prices. Perhaps not significantly less... but if business prices cost less it will encourage PCs to purchase at PC businesses instead of just using the price list, which will ultimately benefit both the PC customers and the PC business owners.

[Pegasus]

Lol whoops. Already did it. Anyway here are the numbers--

That seems good to me. I like this. That makes good sense. I'm seeing nothing wrong here at all - what do you think?

The problem with tier 1 costing anything less than 10 is that at some point one or more of the business options will cost 0 or less than 0 to start. This is because the differentials range from -9 to +9.

So anything below tier 1 costing 10wp means we'll have to either accept that some businesses won't cost anything, or we'll have to set up special stipulations in the case of a business costing nothing or less than nothing.

I'm fine with however we want to do it, but that was my reasoning for puting tier 1 at base 10wp.

Ok, well, if you're going to start being all logical.... yes - that makes perfect sense.

Also I was just thinking-- I think we should set PC business prices at less than price list prices. Perhaps not significantly less... but if business prices cost less it will encourage PCs to purchase at PC businesses instead of just using the price list, which will ultimately benefit both the PC customers and the PC business owners.

Oh, that's a great idea! I like that a LOT! It'll increase pc's reasons for shopping in PC businesses, etc etc. I like it very much!

Ok - so option C and the numbers above? What do you think?

[Quio]

Ok - so option C and the numbers above? What do you think?

Well I like it, lol. But then again, I'm biased. I'll wait for others to weigh in.

Also, perhaps if we set up location threads for PC businesses that customers can post at to log their purchases, the business owner could get +1 for each PC who posts there. But if a PC customer and the business owner actually thread out the transaction in a separate thread, it could be +2 or +3 or whatever we settle on.

I've also been thinking about the current wealth differential as well, and I thought that maybe the current wealth differential (or perhaps a PC business owner's wealth tier) should tie into a business-related bonus at the end of the year. So, depending on what your differential is (or perhaps what your tier is), you get a certain amount of extra wp.

EDIT: Also if you want I can redo the table for the example C numbers just to see what all of it looks like, but I don't know if the table is actually necessary. The equation itself (startup cost = base cost of target tier - startup wealth differential) might be enough on its own.

[Lei'lira]

Quio wrote: ↑
Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:28 pm
Also I was just thinking-- I think we should set PC business prices at less than price list prices. Perhaps not significantly less... but if business prices cost less it will encourage PCs to purchase at PC businesses instead of just using the price list, which will ultimately benefit both the PC customers and the PC business owners.

Oh, that's a great idea! I like that a LOT! It'll increase pc's reasons for shopping in PC businesses, etc etc. I like it very much!

Ok - so option C and the numbers above? What do you think?

This sounds good to me, and I like the idea of items in PC businesses being somewhat cheaper than the price list ones. Other things to consider:

1. What if services (some or all if there are enough PC businesses in a city to accomodate this) are only available in PC businesses?

2. How (if at all) will the 10% discount you can get on price list items via renown rewards be affected by this? Will the discount work in PC run shops too?

3. I still really like the idea of there being a range in costs based on the size of a business. A flower cart will cost a lot less to set up than a flower shop, as an example. Is there a way to work this in somehow?