Thoughts, suggestions and ideas

[Lei'lira]

I didn't see any flaws, but are there supposed to be two tier 8s when there is only one of each tier for the rest?

Tier 8 141 Wealth Points 18 Wealth Points x Season
Tier 8 177 Wealth Points 20 Wealth Points x Season

[Quio]

Hey you've got 2 tier 8s in that table. EDIT: Lei'lira sniped me.

Anyways, yeah, I've been thinking about this as well. I consider our current starting package to be at tier 2 or maybe tier 3. So to me, all characters thus far have been starting below 'average' (tier 5) in wealth.

I think how we answer this question comes down to how we want the system to work.

Going off the table you provided

A PC starting at tier 1 with a wage of 1wp/season should take 22 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 1).
A PC starting at tier 2 with a wage of 4wp/season should take 19 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 4).
A PC starting at tier 3 with a wage of 7wp/season should take 16 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 7).
A PC starting at tier 4 with a wage of 11wp/season should take 12 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 11).
A PC starting at tier 5 with a wage of 12wp/season should take 11 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 12).
A PC starting at tier 6 with a wage of 14wp/season should take 9 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 14).
A PC starting at tier 7 with a wage of 16wp/season should take 7 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 16).
A PC starting at tier 8 with a wage of 18wp/season should take 5 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 18).
A PC starting at tier 9 with a wage of 21wp/season should take 2 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 21).
A PC starting at tier 10 with a wage of 23wp/season should take 0 seasons to reach tier 10 (23 - 23) (because they're already in tier 10, lol).

A PC could take as little as 2 seasons or less to reach tier 10 if they started high (at wealth tier 9). That means it could take starting PCs anywhere from 2 to 22 seasons, depending where they start, to reach the holy grail of wealth tier 10.

Going off all PCs starting at +1 wage (which is really more what PCs have been doing all along)

A PC starting at tier 1 with 0wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 22 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (0 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 22 = 253).
A PC starting at tier 2 with 6wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 22 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (6 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 22 = 259).
A PC starting at tier 3 with 26wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 21 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (26 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 21 = 257).
A PC starting at tier 4 with 46wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 20 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (46 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 20 = 256).
A PC starting at tier 5 with 66wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 19 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (66 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 19 = 256).
A PC starting at tier 6 with 91wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 18 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (91 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 18 = 262).
A PC starting at tier 7 with 116wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 16 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (116 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 16 = 252).
A PC starting at tier 8 with 141wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 15 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (141 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 15 = 261).
A PC starting at tier 9 with 196wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 10 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (196 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 10 = 251).
A PC starting at tier 10 will have already reached tier 10, lol.

A PC could take as little as 10 seasons or less to reach tier 10 if they started high (at wealth tier 9). That means it could take starting PCs anywhere from 10 to 22 seasons, depending where they start, to reach the holy grail of wealth tier 10.

Personally... I think they should start with wage at +1 and work their way up. That's how the site has been doing it all along, and I think it works (and is fairer) for all PCs, especially because starting at a lower tier means you have to work for longer no matter what. Everyone starting at the same +1 wage sort of helps to bridge the gap. Not completely but... there's less of a difference between 22 and 10 than between 22 and 2.

[Kyreen]

Personally... I think they should start with wage at +1 and work their way up. That's how the site has been doing it all along, and I think it works (and is fairer) for all PCs, especially because starting at a lower tier means you have to work for longer no matter what. Everyone starting at the same +1 wage sort of helps to bridge the gap. Not completely but... there's less of a difference between 22 and 10 than between 22 and 2.

I agree with this.

Your starter wage table isn't consistent with the summary section, which says: "Your first Wealth Thread earns you 2 Wealth Points. The following season Wealth Thread earns 3, then 4 etc."

If you're basing wage on starting wealth, I'd also consider what happens if a new player spends enough wealth points as part of setting up their character to drop a tier. Do they get a wage based on the old tier or the new? It's much simpler if a new player just gets a +1 whatever the tier. Less math all round.

[Pegasus]

oke - quick point. We're thinking of starting new pcs on Tier 5

[Pegasus]

but ok - so - let me get this straight. Cos, I'm a little confused so forgive me.



If we start new players at Wealth Tier 5. Unless they are slaves (Wealth Tier 1) or Wilderness / Seafaring PCs (worked out differently, based on skill, probably Wealth Tier 1, but... not in absolute poverty, just surviving)

A PC starting at tier 5 with a wage of 12wp/season should take 11 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (23 - 12).

and

A PC starting at tier 5 with 66wp and a wage of 1wp/season should take 19 seasons or less to reach tier 10 (66 + 1 + 2 + 3... + 19 = 256).

So - starting at Wealth Tier 5, if they're on 12wp / season - 11 seasons is 2 years all bar 1 season.
If they're on 1wp/ season - 19 seasons = just 1 season short of five years.

One of the early criticisms raised here - and why we went to wealth threads giving more wealth points was the ridiculous amount of time it would take for pcs to progress. I mean - Faith has gone from Wealth Tier 1 to Wealth Tier 9 in 2 years, but my new PC BillyBob joins after this change and the same journey - BY THAT MATHS - would take nearly 7 years (Tier 1 to Tier 9).

I don't see how or why it's fair that existing pcs get such a boost in comparison to someone who joins the site on Feb 2nd?

Am I missing something in the maths here?

Your starter wage table isn't consistent with the summary section, which says: "Your first Wealth Thread earns you 2 Wealth Points. The following season Wealth Thread earns 3, then 4 etc."

Yeah - that's the old system, it's on my list of stuff to change, but I'm just wanting to make sure that I 'm changing it to the right thing, so I've left it as obviously wrong atm

[Quio]

Yes, 11 seasons is just under 2 years (11 / 6 = 1.833). However, 19 seasons is just over 3 years (19 / 6 = 3.167).

That is the absolute longest it will take a PC (who is doing a work thread a season) to get to wealth tier 10 from wealth tier 5. If we add a second waged wealth thread with a +1 +1 +2 +2 pattern, that will decrease the time it takes (I'm still not certain if we're adding a second waged wealth thread). Bonuses from renown and loyalty to wealth skill, as well as from modded threads and events, and things like the point bank (and a PC asking for wealth points for other threads!) will also increase a PC's wealth from tier to tier more quickly than the basic math shows.

I could see a PC cutting that time in half, really.

[Kyreen]

Peg, the difference you're seeing is between having 1 job and 2. With the old system, you could have 2 jobs which meant by the end of the first year you could be raking in up to 38 gn a day.

New system only has 1 job/wealth thread. For direct comparison, getting from Wealth Tier 1 to Wealth Tier 9 in the old system with only one job would take between 5 and 6 years.

[Pegasus]

Yes, 11 seasons is just under 2 years (11 / 6 = 1.833). However, 19 seasons is just over 3 years (19 / 6 = 3.167).

OMG I can't math. It is, you're right. Scap the SEVEN YEARS! horror, too. I had 4 seasons x year in my head, did the first one wrong based on that, and then the second one worked, so I believed it.

(sobs) I'm involved in this, why?

That is the absolute longest it will take a PC (who is doing a work thread a season) to get to wealth tier 10 from wealth tier 5. If we add a second waged wealth thread with a +1 +1 +2 +2 pattern, that will decrease the time it takes (I'm still not certain if we're adding a second waged wealth thread).

I think not, to be honest. It seems overly complicated. If people want to do another "job" thread, they can claim it as a wealth thread and get +1. It comes to the same thing and is less adding up for my poor old addled brain....

Bonuses from renown and loyalty to wealth skill, as well as from modded threads and events, and things like the point bank (and a PC asking for wealth points for other threads!) will also increase a PC's wealth from tier to tier more quickly than the basic math shows.

I could see a PC cutting that time in half, really.

Ok. So we're not massively disadvantaging new PCs or giving existing ones enormous advantages... we're making the playing field even and roughly the same.

@Kyreen - yes, there is that, too - I hadn't thought of that either. Le sigh.

I really don't know how you guys put up with my cruddy math. I'm so sorry.

I fixed the two 8s though!

[Quio]

If you think 2 - 3 years is too long (and considering that we wouldn't be having a second waged wealth thread) we could consider simply giving players +1wp per thread (besides their waged wealth thread and modded events, etc etc). I don't think that would make most players increase in wealth like, way too quickly. I'm uncertain of how many threads per year an average player gets in (let's say 5 - 15 per season). At 5 per season, that's an extra 30wp a year. At 15 per season, an extra 90wp.

It just depends on what everyone wants to do and how quickly everyone wants PCs to be able to go up the tier system.

[Pegasus]

No, I think the system we've got now... (and it should now be right on the wiki, if you get a moment to check ) will work. The less math-y the better (for reasons which, by now, are obvious.. hehe)

Let me know what you think - if we've got the basic system down pat, I'm going to get on with writing up Wealth Skills (which originally I had thought to link to Tier for everyone. So, if you're working at Tier 10 you must have a Wealth Skill that's max mastery or something. - now that seems too complicated)